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Should we look at changing our loot system in the new expansion?
Yes, I hate our current system!
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Yes, I'm curious about options, but our current system doesn't bother me either.
100%
 100%  [ 2 ]
No, I'm not opposed to the discussion, but like what we have.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
No, I love what we currently use and would never want to change.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 2

Aeryna
AerynaStarcaller
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re: Loot System

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I suppose the /roll wouldn't be needed, would be more of a vote of "Okay who actually can use this" to rule out people who don't need it to save the Loot Master some time. But maybe that's the best way to say that - Keep raid chat and vent quiet while LM deals with it while the rest of us finish up trash.  And we may end up with a really good theoretical system and tyr it out and it'll suck and we'll have to refine it on the fly.

 

But, liking the idea of BiS>Biggest upgrade instead of just /roll so far.

Bascus
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If you're going to resort to the loot council after the /roll, why even do a /roll in the first place? just do a loot council and give it to the person that it would be the biggest upgrade for.

 

I'm all for something along those lines personally. The trick, in my mind, would be getting it to work with pugs and part-time/bench players. Otherwise they'd always be getting all the loot over the normal/regular team. But maybe that comes back to how to deal with them.



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Aeryna
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Hmm, I'm open to a system like that if people like it, but my first instinct is I see some places where people could feel like it's not fair or be upset.  I like our open system, and maybe the trick will be just take a little longer with loot, have a loot master who lets people roll for need, and then loot councils out who has the greatest need for it (biggest upgrade).

 

The nice thing is this group tends to do that anyway which I've always been very please with. I love seeing a board of rolls pop up, but then my raiders sort of loot council themselves and maybe someone won the loot but will pass on it for someone who needs it more.  I hope that continues, but with 20 people (and possibly new recruits from outside the guild) I can't bank on that.

 

Any other thoughts?

Bascus
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I've never administered or run with a group that does DKP, (Dragon Kill Point) and there are a ton of variants and things that can be tweaked with a system like that, but here is the basics of it as I understand:

1. People are awarded points (This can be for anything. You can get points for being on time, more points if you're 15 minutes early, you can get points for farming and contributing mats like herbs, points for staying for the entire raid length even as a standby raider not in the raid, points for anything you can dream up.)

2. loot drops

3. You bid points on it (Again, this can happen any number of ways, some systems let you decide how many points you want to spend, some say you have to bid 1/2 your points for MS and maybe something like 1/4 for OS)

4. If you win loot, your points are deducted

5. points decay (optional, and again plenty of variables - you can simply lose a % of your points every week, or lose points if you're not online for raid, or leave early, etc. decay can serve two purposes the first is to penalize bad behavior and the second is to prevent point hording)

So, that's the basics of DKP as I understand it. There are other loot systems too, like suicide kings. I don't really know how DKP or any other system handles pugs though, and that is one point/reason to have a good and consistent team with back-up/bench/alt raiders, so you never truly need to pug. Of course, back-up/bench/alt raiders sometimes need a system too, for rotating them in often enough to keep them interested and geared. After all, a LFR geared backup doesn't do a mythic team as much good as they could when they're needed.



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Aeryna
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Those are all really good points and I hadn't thought of how many /roll s we'd have going in a 20 man system for a single "plate" piece, and I think you're right, Bascus, about the potential for a major upgrade to get passed up to a sidegrade, exceptions being BiS. 

So my thought is loot will probably take even longer than it does now.  I have some thoughts though on how to do it differently. (and I'm definitely open to any suggestions on how to handle a larger raid team - I've been in *1* 25 man raid for *1* boss fight.  Count them. 1.  I wasn't even running it - they just let it go to Group Loot.)

And, my idea here could be totally unfeasible, but I'd definitely appoint a dps to do loot instead of a healer or a tank so we could continue moving through the instance. (It might be me again if I bring Aeryna, who knows.)  But I'd like to see a /roll for anyone that the piece would be BiS, gets that out of the way. If it's not a BiS, then /roll for anyone who could use it - and go through who has the greatest need; ie. what piece are they replacing.

I like Iz's idea too, does that kind of play into dkp at that point?  I've heard the word thrown around and have a general idea of what it means but never seen anything really implemented. And I'm not sure how I would handle PuGs with the attendance method because.. I, well, I do want to reward guildies for coming regularly, but I don't want to penalize pugs in the process.  I've never liked the idea of giving guildies a +5 to their roll or something to give them a better shot at loot.  I wouldn't pug into a group like that and wouldn't want to run a raid I wouldn't want to pug into. And what about standby raiders? They're still guildies, even if they don't come every week. 

So all that rambling aside - kinda thinking this through as I type it - we need an efficient way to handle a larger number of pieces (four, I think? Maybe three?) being needed by many more people and still accommodating guest & standby raiders in a way that will not totally piss them off.

Thoughts?

Izailias
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re: A bigger group

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I think the ol' /roll works good for 10 man. But some players might find it a little aggravating in 20(or 40) man. When they might have to compete with half the raid(Some caster/heal piece???) for an item and lose by luck week after week. My friends 25 man team uses a loot system based off attendance(So people show up) and the last time you got a piece of gear. How it works after that and how they dealt with pugs I don't really remember.

Bascus
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And with how the loot will change depending on the spec that's using it is part of the problem with sticking with such a simply loot system, I think. More people can use the loot, so more people will roll on it. That makes it more likely that somebody could lose items, that are very large upgrades to them, to people that are only going to get a very minor upgrade/side-grade from it.

 

I'm big on the team/guild mentality (part of why I put all my gems/herbs/leather/etc. in the guild bank instead of holding onto it for myself). I'd like to see every piece of loot be used to it's fullest potential. What I mean by that, is giving it to the person on the raid team that it's the biggest upgrade for. That way the team as a whole will benefit from it most. The only exception would be BIS items.

 

Now, that being said, I don't really have a problem with our current loot system, and it's treated me well in the past. I just think that if we're going to try jumping into mythic raiding, at some point we have to start acting like a little more hard core of a raid team.



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Aeryna
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Always happy to hear any thoughts on it - definitely open to changing it if anyone sees anything that could be improved on.

Remember the loot itself is changing, I believe (?) where it's gonna be a plate drop and all plate people can roll for it and it adopts the stats to the spec, versus buttloads of say, spirit plate when there isn't even a paladin in the raid.

Thoughts?

Bascus
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re: Loot System

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I'm just curios what peoples thoughts are on our current loot system and/or if they think we should look into an alternative for the next expansion or not. I've got some thoughts/ideas personally, but if everybody is happy then there is no reason to change.



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